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Politics

Who Decides Whether Rand Paul's Libertarian Girl Has 'Fringe' Foreign Policy Views?

Lindsey Graham: 'Rand Paul has been more wrong on ISIS than Obama has.'

Robby Soave | 1.22.2015 12:30 PM

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Libertarian Girl
Marianne Copenhaver / Facebook

The Daily Beast's Olivia Nuzzi—a political reporter who frequently writes about Sen. Rand Paul's likely presidential campaign—recently tweeted the following:

Just ran into Lindsey Graham who told me "Rand Paul has been more wrong on ISIS than Obama has."

— Olivia Nuzzi (@Olivianuzzi) January 22, 2015

Chew on that for a minute—we will revisit it.

Nuzzi has also covered the very minor firestorm over Paul's hiring of Marianne Copenhaver (a.k.a. "Libertarian Girl") to assist with his social media operations. The Washington Free Beacon, an unabashedly neoconservative outlet, drew attention to some of Copenhaver's previous statements that Free Beacon reporter Alana Goodman evidently considered scandalous. I wasn't remotely convinced that Copenhaver's views—opposition to war, praise for Edward Snowden, criticism of the Pledge of Allegiance, skepticism of Israeli foreign policy, harsh words for Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham—are objectively controversial. While not all libertarians share them, or share them as strongly, certainly some do. (I reached out to Copenhaver, but she declined to discuss the matter further.)

But there's no such thing as a non-controversial opinion, I suppose, if it's picked up by major media players and endlessly touted as something scary. Nuzzi wrote:

While inside the Peppermill, I watched as Copenhaver drafted a tweet on her iPhone from Paul's personal Senate account. She showed it to Stafford for approval, and he gave her the go-ahead to send it to the senator's 534,000 followers.

A close reading of Copenhaver's social-media history now has some asking whether or not Paul's decision to saddle her with such responsibility speaks well of his judgment.

Who are the "some"? The Free Beacon and Jennifer Rubin. Rubin likened Copenhaver to Jack Hunter, a previous Paul campaigner who was fired after his long-ago support for the Confederacy came to light. (Hunter has repeatedly apologized for his past and disavowed those statements; he is now an editor at the libertarian-leaning site, Rare.) Rubin wrote:

This is, of course, very reminiscent of his office's hiring of the Southern Avenger, a pro-Confederate blogger, whom Paul originally defended and later was forced to part company with. Moreover, it is one more indication that Paul World operates well outside the lines of mainstream, serious national campaigns.

Why is it that he attracts people with these outlandish views? Well, for one thing Paul suggests that he might agree with some of them. While not using an expletive to describe McCain, he repeated a slanderous and already disproved lie that McCain had met with Syrian jihadists. And while not recommending Snowden for a Nobel Peace Prize, he did compare him to another winner, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. One might expect that people who espouse the views Paul does and who traffic in smears attract people very far off the political spectrum.

Nuzzi, at least, disputed this equivalency while still characterizing Copenhaver's views as fringe:

My mentioning Hunter is not, I should note, meant to conflate praising Edward Snowden or denouncing John McCain with complimenting John Wilkes Booth, but to highlight the fact that Paul does, as Rubin contends, often find himself surrounded by "fringe" characters, and it has been and will likely continue to be a serious political problem for him.

The problem, of course, is this: who gets to decide which views are fringe? If it's Jennifer Rubin, then yes, any Republican who expresses reluctance to become involved in another war in the Middle East—or associates with people strongly critical of such action—would be labelled fringe. And if fringe is defined by degree of dissent from those in power—from the gung-ho Obama administration and Congressional leaders of both parties—the noninterventionist view is certainly fringe.

But I'm far from convinced that Paul's core views on foreign policy and civil liberties are at odds with the American people—many of whom were furious, not with Edward Snowden, but at the abuses he uncovered. Many Americans think ISIS has committed unspeakable crimes and are fine with taking them out, but have serious doubts about the viability of the U.S. military's long-term strategy there. As recently as October 22, 47 percent of Pew poll respondents were concerned that anti-ISIS efforts would go too far. A lesser number, 43 percent, were concerned the efforts wouldn't go far enough. Given the constantly changing nature of the conflict, and the flip-flopping tendencies of the electorate's foreign policy views, one shouldn't read too much into these numbers. And yet it seems to me that most people are still making up their minds about the important foreign policy and civil liberties issues of the day.

This debate is reflected in the deep foreign policy divide within the Republican Party. And with representatives of the libertarian, authoritarian, and moderate camps preparing for battle in the GOP presidential primaries, the disagreements will only grow more pronounced.

That's why the "fringe" label is such an important weapon—the neoconservative faction of the GOP will wield it in an attemp to keep libertarian noninterventionists at bay. And that is the significance of Graham—a hawk as war-hungry as they come—asserting that Paul is more wrong about ISIS than Obama. He wants Republicans to think that Paul is a completely delusional fringe candidate with less of a grip on the world than the president. It's a message to other Republicans: denounce this charlatan and his crazy followers.

To win the debate, libertarians must make even stronger arguments—they must show that their positions are not fringe, but rather, increasingly represent the sentiments of ordinary folks all over the country if not the powerful in Washington. Because every quarrel between libertarians and neocons—even one as trivial as Libertarian Girl's unremarkable social media history—is likely to land in the national media spotlight as a new front in the GOP foreign policy civil war.

Reason devoted its January issue to the libertarian foreign policy debate. Read Matt Welch's interview with Rand Paul—which tackled ISIS, war authorization, and more—here.

Start your day with Reason. Get a daily brief of the most important stories and trends every weekday morning when you subscribe to Reason Roundup.

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NEXT: Daniel Hannan: 'Instead of making documentaries about powerful, shadowy terrorist networks, let's laugh at the numpties'

Robby Soave is a senior editor at Reason.

PoliticsRand PaulWorldPolicyLibertarianismNeoconservatismISISElection 2016
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  1. Libertarian   10 years ago

    Isn't this the basic problem -- that ideas like hers are labeled as "fringe", and that the people who think it's prudent to lob missiles into Libya and Yemen, or send billions of dollars to Egypt are "mainstream," and hold offices in the House, Senate, and White House?

    1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

      ding ding ding

    2. Cytotoxic   10 years ago

      But it is prudent to lob missiles into Yemen and Libya (that is the parts controlled by AQ jihadists).

      1. Irish   10 years ago

        Great point. Our bombing campaigns in both Libya and Yemen have been such resounding successes that both countries are now on the verge of anarchy.

        1. Palin's Buttplug   10 years ago

          Anarchy is an improvement.

        2. Cytotoxic   10 years ago

          Bombing Khaddafi was stupid but bombing the jihadists there now may be a good idea. Bombing AQAP in Yemen has been nothing but good. Yemen's slide into chaos is not related to that campaign and is not our problem.

        3. Free Society   10 years ago

          There are still hierarchies of political power. They're just factionalized and vying for the same prize; to wrap their criminal enterprise in the veil of legitimate statehood. What's happening is far from anarchy but a rather normal process of statism.

        4. VicRattlehead   10 years ago

          hey hey, its chaos not anarchy, not the same thing

        5. soflarider   10 years ago

          "both countries are now on the verge of anarchy."

          FINALLY, the libertarian moment has arrived!

          1. Kure'i   10 years ago

            Only because there are so many millennials in Yemen.

    3. Zeb   10 years ago

      Yeah, "fringe" has nothing to do with the validity of the ideas. In the context of the contemporary Republican party, her anti-war ideas are definitely on the fringe.

    4. mad.casual   10 years ago

      Isn't this the basic problem -- that ideas like hers are labeled as "fringe"

      Considering the progressively weaker and weaker hold that either party holds on 'mainstream', the notion that fringe=bad should itself be in question to anyone holding/keeping a job by popular majority.

    5. josh jones   10 years ago

      This dizzy bink should go Galt. Take her hard-earned capital and head for Somolia where there is no tyrannical federal government, or burdensome social safety net. Send us all a postcard from your Randian Utopia of Free Somaliland. I bet that medicore actor Ronald Reagan will be on the stamp.

      1. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

        So? are libertarians interventionist like Reagan (and Obama!) or fringe isolationists?

        1. josh jones   10 years ago

          You seem to be confused. I didn't say Reagan was an interventionist, or a libertatrian. I said that self-proclaimed 'libertarians' would put his likeness on a stamp. IF.

          They'd have to take their hard-earned capital and head for Somolia where there is no tyrannical federal government, or burdensome social safety net, and set up their Randian Utopia before they could do so, and we all know they aren't gonna actually 'go galt', but are just gonna threaten it repeatedly.

          1. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

            You seem quite confused. If you read Reason, you'd see that Carter or Clinton would get their likeness on a stamp before Reagan.

            And if you read Reason, you might know the difference between anarchism and libertarianism.

            1. josh jones   10 years ago

              Lol. refer me to the author of your Doublespeak Primer, "Reason". I've never heard of it, because I outgrew my libertarian fantasies when I was 15.

              1. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

                And I outgrew my Team America: World Police fantasies when I was 15. 😛

                1. josh jones   10 years ago

                  bet me too. I watched that movie again the other day and it was funny as ever.

                  I don't like any GD police, much less world police.

              2. Suicidy   10 years ago

                So you're a good little statist waiting for your good government to issue edicts on how to live?

          2. Kure'i   10 years ago

            It cracks me up how often I hear the strawman "Somalia = capitalist paradise" argument voiced from the same mouths who swear "REAL socialism has never been tried."

            1. josh jones   10 years ago

              Surely you aren't suggesting that the free market couldn't cure all of Somolia's ails. Strawman that, Randian.

              I like my socialism FDR style. And I'll have it. And you'll help pay for it, or you'll gtfo. It really is that simple.

              1. Kure'i   10 years ago

                Weak trolling.

                FDR. Lolz. Yeah, we're all about as likely to "go Galt" as you are to move to a country that's enacted every one of your 100-years-of-failure policies. It's funny how American leftists are all about la revoluccion, but never go join the eternal workers' paradise collectives anyplace else.

      2. DenverJay   10 years ago

        Well, all I can say is that maybe you should buy a good dictionary. "Libertarian" does NOT equal "Anarchist". Now, reading the comments on "Reason", it may be difficult to understand that, since yes, the good commentators here do lean towards the anarchist side.
        But, most Libertarian doctrines do allow for a (limited) government, one that would enforce law and order on the Somali countryside.
        So, if a bunch of millionaire, monocle-wearing Libertarians WERE to take over Somalia, the first thing they would do is probably convene a Constitutional Convention that limited the power of the State, while enabling said State to have enough power to protect the rights of all citizens.
        But, yes, Somalia makes a very pretty straw-man for pre-schoolers.

        1. DenverJay   10 years ago

          OT: To any of you who remember and care about my problems, I have buried my wife, and gone through what I now suspect is a mandatory 6 months of depression/ insanity/ lack-of-will-to-do-a-damn-thing. And so, "the good lord willing and the creek don't rise", I should be back in my beautiful Denver within 3 weeks, leaving my wife's home state of OK, where we moved when she got sick; where the people are nice, but where I will never feel at home.
          Once back in Denver, I expect to go through another round of weeping-like-a-girl, since Denver is where we met, and there will be additional sites/locales/people that will remind me of my loss (Still raw. We were only together for 8 years; I don't understand how people who were married for decades survive the loss of a spouse.)
          However, I am looking forward to getting back to my home, the Mile High City, based at the foot of the gorgeous Rocky Mountains, and reuniting with my family and friends.
          This means that I am breaking out of my cocoon of sorrow, so you will all have to either block me or, once again, listen to my ideas.
          P.S. If anybody needs some help, I will be looking for work in the Denver-Metro area by the middle of February.

          1. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

            "We were only together for 8 years; I don't understand how people who were married for decades survive the loss of a spouse."

            Wow. Your words echo my own thoughts at the time. It was nine years for me, and my girlfriend, not a wife.
            At the time I also worried about my friends who were in relationships and how they would handle such a loss, since I always seemed stronger than them (or at least less of an emotional individual).

            Unfortunately, I have no useful advice for you DJ, but I wish you well.

            Regards,

            Charles

            P.S. Good comments at the 3:42 mark.
            -C

            1. DenverJay   10 years ago

              Thank you. It's one of those things that, unless you experience it, you can't really understand.
              If you were with your girlfriend for nine years, then I don't think semantics like "married" really matter. You must have loved her, and her loss must have been catastrophic.
              I remember that my that my grandmother died within a few months after my grandfather's death, and she was healthy. I'm sure it was the shock of loosing half of herself that killed her.
              I still wonder "where did that red paint on my New Balance shoes come from?" Things like that. Half of you dies with that person. Half of your memory, things like "where did we meet so-and-so"? Also, she took care of the money, so my finances are completely screwed.
              I am sure it must be the same with you, marriage certificate or not; when people talk of your "other half", they are stating the truth: that other person becomes one half of the person that the two of you combine to become.
              Just knowing that others have lived through the same thing is a big help. Again, thank you, and I hope that you are doing well.

    6. MoreFreedom   10 years ago

      "Isn't this the basic problem -- that ideas like hers are labeled as 'fringe', and that the people who think it's prudent to lob missiles into Libya and Yemen, or send billions of dollars to Egypt are 'mainstream,' and hold offices in the House, Senate, and White House?"

      The basic problem is that war is the health of the state, and the means to make a lot of money for politicians in the know (e.g., by making a bet in the stock market with their inside knowledge of our government's war plans).

      Thus, those in positions to stir up wars, do so. E.G., Saddam Hussein got the green light to invade Kuwait from our ambassador, April Glaspie, who told Saddam a week before he invaded Kuwait that "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie

      There you have it, the reason we went to war in Iraq, was because our politicians lied to Hussein, and he believed them.

  2. WTF   10 years ago

    Why is it that he attracts people with these outlandish views?

    Unlike Obama, who only associated with mainstream people like Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers.

    1. Sevo   10 years ago

      We can add Van Jones.

      1. VicRattlehead   10 years ago

        Valarie Jerrett

    2. josh jones   10 years ago

      Jeremiah Wright who went to Viet Nam and fought for your right to run your uneducated mouth on the interwebs?

      1. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

        How the hell does fighting to prevent the Vietnamese from exercising self-determination protect our "right to run your uneducated mouth on the interwebs"?

        But then, you're a fan of FDR, who fought to shut down one of the two independent black republics and replace it with a lighter skinned government favorable to the US.

        1. josh jones   10 years ago

          "How the hell does fighting to prevent the Vietnamese from exercising self-determination protect our "right to run your uneducated mouth on the interwebs"?"

          It doesn't. But since right-wingers have made any criticism of any veteran ever (unless he happens to be a Democrat running for office) a treasonous offense, you have to lay in the bed you made.

          Just listen to the loud screaming that Seth Rogan evoked by daring to say that American Sniper reminded him of a propganda piece. Do you think it left-wing anti-war people who are doing that screaming?

          These are YOUR voters. Don't blame it on me.

          1. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

            It's not the bed I made. It's the straw bed you made for me.

            As part of non-interventionism, we don't believe in invading a country to put an American-friendly government in place.

            It wasn't libertarians who were screaming about Seth Rogan. It was the interventionists. You know, the side you're sticking up for. YOUR voters, not mine.

            1. josh jones   10 years ago

              funny, because all the posts I saw railed against "Hollywood liberals" and "Obamanauts".

              Let me know when you want to wake up to the smell of sharpie.

          2. Suicidy   10 years ago

            How about that Al Sharpton? Pride of the obama administration right there.

        2. josh jones   10 years ago

          "But then, you're a fan of FDR, who fought to shut down one of the two independent black republics and replace it with a lighter skinned government favorable to the US"

          And your point is?
          Apparently I'm not alone in my admiriation. That's why he won four terms. People admire him because he cleaned up the messes that the Isolationist Republicans had left. I understand that you don't, because you still espouse those failed policies, but that is a reflection on your own shortcomings, and nothing else.

          1. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

            So? you think we should have invaded Germany and Japan in the 1920's? 😀

            Go take your Bush-Romney politics somewhere else. Obama won on a platform of cleaning up the mess of Interventionist Republicans left. I hear Donald Rumsfeld needs a hunting party. I'm sure he'd love to hear your ideas on where to intervene next.

            1. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

              Oh, that was Cheney, not Rumsfeld.

              Eh, same difference. Both Wilsonians like FDR.

            2. josh jones   10 years ago

              "So? you think we should have invaded Germany and Japan in the 1920's? :-D"

              CITE a source where Roosevelt proposed either. Maybe your boy Rummy can elicit some strawmen from that army of them you employ.

              1. josh jones   10 years ago

                "Eh, same difference. Both Wilsonians like FDR."

                For the third time, let me know where you find your forehead, and I'll happily draw a Nolan Chart on it for you.

                Wilson and FDR graph about as close as Reagan and the Ayatollah. I'd be happy to graph you a notable libertarian, but there isn't one. That's because their fantasies about policy are so obviously disengaged from reality that they can't win any elections.

    3. Suicidy   10 years ago

      And Al Sharpton.

  3. Ronny Paulino   10 years ago

    This is a nothingburger and Libertarian Girl didn't say anything that Rand Paul and (most) libertarians would disavow. Free Beacon is a pathetic neo-con rag.

    1. Timon 19   10 years ago

      "Nothingburger"

      Add to list of words that really, really, really need to be banned.

      Obama partisans have pummeled it into the ground, so it very quickly lost its novelty factor. Now it's just super-annoying.

      1. Ronny Paulino   10 years ago

        I'm fine with that. I actually don't know why I wrote it. Can't remember ever saying it before.

        1. Timon 19   10 years ago

          It's insidious, like most left-wing memes.

          1. VicRattlehead   10 years ago

            Dont censor me you nothingburger!!!!!!

            1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

              I'd like a nothingburger with cheese, please.

      2. Zeb   10 years ago

        Huh. I have never heard the term or seen it in print before as far as I can recall.

        1. Timon 19   10 years ago

          Obamanauts LOVE to use it. I'm surprised ButtPlug hasn't spewed it all over the place here.

          1. josh jones   10 years ago

            you mean like the way Randians always issue idle threats to "go galt"?

            1. Timon 19   10 years ago

              I like chimichangas.

              1. josh jones   10 years ago

                I like your mom

      3. josh jones   10 years ago

        Nice to hear "libertarians" talk about the lists of words they want banned.

        1. Timon 19   10 years ago

          I would like to listen to Dashboard Confessional and sob. Will you join me?

          1. josh jones   10 years ago

            sorry, I was out having a social life when you were having your personal crisis. Go suicide hotline, go.

            1. Suicidy   10 years ago

              You don't have a social life. Stop lying.

        2. Suicidy   10 years ago

          It's an expression. Get over it.

  4. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

    If ever I don't want to perform any research on a topic or issue I can always read Rubin's or Graham's opinion to learn what not to believe.

    1. Swiss Servator, ... Switzy!   10 years ago

      Jen Jen the Establishment Engine is a useful gauge of the "thought" of the stolid, unimaginative, Chamber of Crony wing of the Elephant Party.

      1. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

        Well put, Swiss.

        Anecdotally, a few years ago I was so annoyed by one of her articles (in which her distortions and outright lies were more numerous and noxious than normal) that I posted a response. When disputing her claims I provided evidentiary material and links. You know, Swiss, facts and supportive information.

        She deleted all of my comments.

  5. Medical Physics Guy   10 years ago

    Since the only people outside the beltway who share Jennifer Rubin's views are Mitt Romney's 26 cousins, she has been reduced to perpetually trolling libertarians.

  6. Pro Libertate   10 years ago

    You know what? Even if Paul were fringe on foreign policy--whatever that means--our screaming need is for domestic reform. The biggest danger to our future, freedom, and wealth is the government, the government, and the government. The priority is fixing things here. While that doesn't mean that we ignore our role in international affairs, which is huge, or that we stop defending ourselves, it does mean that focusing on this issue instead of the domestic one is like voting for a guy because of his position on abortion.

    1. Citizen Nothing   10 years ago

      ...says a guy way beyond draft age.

      1. Pro Libertate   10 years ago

        That's not true--I've looped.

    2. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

      You left out Nazi (with x opinion on abortion).

  7. Catatafish   10 years ago

    Simpler Rubin: "You are an apostate to the orthodoxy. Burn the witch."

    Because, you know, who needs new ideas when the same old ones have panned out so well for us, both domestically and abroad?

  8. The Late P Brooks   10 years ago

    Thank goodness we have mature responsible thinkers like Lindsey Graham to keep those deranged Teabaggers in check.

    *checks market value of NOC holding*

    1. Suicidy   10 years ago

      I despise that RINO. He actually thinks he can be president.

      1. Sunshine   10 years ago

        I'd like to think he's delusional, but plenty of people will line up to vote for him, heaven help us all.

  9. Bryan C   10 years ago

    "That's why the "fringe" label is such an important weapon?the neoconservative faction of the GOP will wield it in an attempt to keep libertarian noninterventionists at bay."

    Congratulations. You've just discovered politics.

    Using phrasings like "libertarian noninterventionists" is part of the problem, you know.It implies nonintervenionism is some sort of common libertarian trait, when it's obviously not. At most it's a rather vague policy preference espoused by the Libertarian Party. This just plays into the statist narrative that libertarians are simpleminded contrarians.

    1. Cytotoxic   10 years ago

      This. There is a range of libertarian views on foreign policy. Unfortunately, in the wake of the Iraq debacle, Ron Paul's 'notions' about foreign policy smothered all else like a C. difficile infection and have been as damn hard to get rid of since.

      1. HeteroPatriarch   10 years ago

        Why did you put "notions" in quotes? Are they not notions?

        1. The Laconic   10 years ago

          Only notionally.

    2. HeteroPatriarch   10 years ago

      Nonintervention is an extremely common libertarian trait.

      1. Cytotoxic   10 years ago

        Noninterventionism is a dogmatic faith dishonestly pushed by some libertarians as being The One True Choice for the whole movement.

        1. Zeb   10 years ago

          That doesn't make it any less common.

    3. HeteroPatriarch   10 years ago

      And the Libertarian Party has very little to do with libertarianism.

      1. soflarider   10 years ago

        And as far as parties go it's pretty dull.

        1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

          True. The mainstream wants excitement like wars, no-knock warrants, and "police-related shootings".

    4. Zeb   10 years ago

      Using phrasings like "libertarian noninterventionists" is part of the problem, you know.It implies nonintervenionism is some sort of common libertarian trait

      Non-interventionism is a common libertarian trait, so I don't really see the problem. That is not to say that all libertarians are non-interventionists. Obviously not true. Which is why you have to say "libertarian non-interventionists" and not just "libertarians".

    5. The Laconic   10 years ago

      It implies noninterventionism is some sort of common libertarian trait

      Rather, it implies that libertarianism is some sort of common noninterventionist trait. Which, I believe, it is.

      1. josh jones   10 years ago

        Its protofascist doublespeak.

        We used to call them what they are:

        ISOLATIONISTS.

        The messes their polices make are why FDR was elected to four terms as POTUS.

        1. l0b0t   10 years ago

          Stuff and nonsense! Noninterventionism /= isolationism; travel and commerce are not restricted by nonintervention.

          1. josh jones   10 years ago

            I don't recall "travel and commerce" being all that restricted by Coolidge or Hoover either. Maybe you can enlighten me.

            My recollections are of lots of talk about the Efficiency Movement, and the 'Republican record of prosperity'.

            1. l0b0t   10 years ago

              That's my point; neither Coolidge or Hoover were not isolationist, they were noninterventionist. Tokugawa Japan and Hongxi China were isolationist. The USA has never been isolationist.

              1. l0b0t   10 years ago

                Lousy edit button... Delicious Bourbon...

                Neither Coolidge or Hoover were isolationist.

                1. josh jones   10 years ago

                  The US Dept of State takes issue with your revisionist history and use of Ron Paul's DoubleSpeak.

                  Head to their website. Find

                  Milestones: 1937?1945
                  American Isolationism in the 1930s

                  It'll set you straight, professor.

                  On a side note:
                  This is EXACTLY why fascists love libertarians. After Libertarians disposed of a strong federal government and the regulation of capital, the fascists could more easily steal all the money and use it to institute their own agenda, with no one organized enough to stop them.

                  1. l0b0t   10 years ago

                    Foggy Bottom employing the same deliberately obtuse misunderstanding of basic English as you (for the same purposes of agitprop, fancy that) does not make it so.

                    1. josh jones   10 years ago

                      Its probably a liberal conspiracy to trick you into those FEMA camps.

                    2. Suicidy   10 years ago

                      So, you exalt liberal government then? That's your thing?

                  2. Kure'i   10 years ago

                    Fascists love libertarians? The (supposedly ex-socialist) Fascists who spout straight up socialist rhetoric, or just the ones who use "socialist" in their party names?

                    Citation for this "love," please. I'm sure we'll be waiting a while.

        2. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

          Obama was elected on an anti-interventionist platform after W's foreign military misadventures.

          Warren Harding was elected on an anti-interventionist platform after Wilson's some 21 interventions in 11 countries including Mexico (at least 3 times), Haiti, Guatemala, Panama, Nicaragua, and the USSR.

          1. josh jones   10 years ago

            "W's foreign military misadventures."

            Nevermind that he let terrorists attack us on our soil, in the economic capitol of the world.

            Sorry, did you have a point?

            1. HeteroPatriarch   10 years ago

              Do you? Besides that guns never should've been prohibited on planes?

              1. josh jones   10 years ago

                that the last POTUS from Paul Ryan's party was an abysmal failure.

                Who needs guns? When I flew to Hamburg in 1999 I carried a 3.75" Cold Steel Voyager Tanto clipped to my right hip pocket. No one said a word until I got to Brussels, and then the soldiers who found it said "Next time check this."

                That folding knife would've outgunned boxcutters.

                1. josh jones   10 years ago

                  I should elaborate:
                  Who needs guns on commercial airplanes?

                  While I type this I'm wearing a 3" SP101, so I understand the need for personal protection. Fifty loaded guns on a pressurized airliner at FL35 sounds like a recipe for disaster to me though.

                2. josh jones   10 years ago

                  lol just realized I said "Paul Ryan", not Rand Paul. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

                  1. Suicidy   10 years ago

                    To your limited intellect I suppose.

    6. CE   10 years ago

      I'm a complex-minded contrarian, thank you.

  10. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

    "A close reading of Copenhaver's social-media history now has some asking whether or not Paul's decision to saddle her with such responsibility speaks well of his judgment."

    "Some" is often reporter-speak for "me and a couple of people who agree with me."

    1. Zeb   10 years ago

      That's nice.

      1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

        Some is four or more so, a few people (3). A few (3) a couple (2). Total=4.

        1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

          Squirrels ate my

          1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

            A few is greater than a couple. (!)

    2. CatoTheElder   10 years ago

      I thought "me and a couple of people who agree with me" would constitute a "consensus" over at the Washington Beacon.

      I'm pretty sure that "some" means "me and my imaginary friends".

  11. Suthenboy   10 years ago

    The establishments on both sides of the aisle and their stooges in the media are going to go balls to the wall to keep Paul out of the oval office. He is going to have to run a flawless campaign, and I fear that will not happen.

    1. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

      From what I've read and heard Suthenboy, they've already started.

      1. OneOut   10 years ago

        I would imagine that they are just gettin started.

        "you ain't seen nothin yet....b b bbaby you just ain't seen nothinyet

    2. josh jones   10 years ago

      LMFAO.

      What planet are you on? There won't be another GOP POTUS until those of us who watched Dubya's reign of terror are all dead of old age.

      No amount of gerrymandering can save you, and that was the only chance you ever had.

      1. Suicidy   10 years ago

        Look you bitter little bitch. You and your prog friends will be dealt with soon enough. America has had just about enough.

  12. The Late P Brooks   10 years ago

    Now it's just super-annoying.

    You sound exactly like Rachel Maddow when you say that.

    1. Timon 19   10 years ago

      You take that back, Mister!

  13. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

    "And while not recommending Snowden for a Nobel Peace Prize, he did compare him to another winner, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr."

    That's such an unfair comparison! Rev. King never broke the law on behalf of some purported higher principle!

    Um, wait...

    1. CE   10 years ago

      Mr. Snowden should be considered a national hero. The Nobel Peace Prize has pretty much destroyed its own significance as a marker of virtue, for obvious reason.

      1. josh jones   10 years ago

        you mean because they gave one to a black man?

        yeah you do, who do you think you're fooling?

        1. l0b0t   10 years ago

          Yasser Arafat is black to you? That's some vintage racism there boy. Seriously though, the Nobel Prize became a joke because it was presented to a slew of warmongers: Arafat, Kissenger, Wilson, Roosevelt I, Tho, and Hull.

          1. josh jones   10 years ago

            "Yasser Arafat is black to you?"

            The POTUS is. Stop trying to pretend you hated on the NPP before they handed him one.

            1. Suicidy   10 years ago

              You lost any credibility scum like you could ever have playing the race card. You are weak and stupid.

              Kill yourself.

  14. Bill Dalasio   10 years ago

    Here's a map of the places John McCain and his little mini-me Graham want to attack:

    http://www.motherjones.com/pol.....-map-syria

    I've no doubt Jennifer Rubin is on board with all of it.

    Explain to me, again, how Libertarian Girl's views are "fringe".

    1. CE   10 years ago

      questioning the Pledge to the State is considered fringe by conservatives.

      1. josh jones   10 years ago

        SHE wouldn't mind pledging to the state. Its her mouth-frothing hatred of socialists that prevents her from repeating words authored by one.

  15. Mickey Rat   10 years ago

    Welcome to the political big leagues, libertarians. This is the rhetoric you have to deal with when you are doing more than just kvetching on the sidelines. Getting all hurt feelings about it is not going to help.

    1. Butler T. Reynolds   10 years ago

      And this is why the big leagues keep dishing up soulless mannequins as their candidates.

  16. Cytotoxic   10 years ago

    This article is basically right, but a little whiny. Don't whine. Is Lindsey Graham really going to sway opinions in the GOP/conservative base? Don't they loathe that guy?

    1. Palin's Buttplug   10 years ago

      Isn't he your doppelganger?

      1. Cytotoxic   10 years ago

        No, Captain Retard. Closer to yours.

  17. Raston Bot   10 years ago

    Just ran into Lindsey Graham who told me "Rand Paul has been more wrong on ISIS than Obama has."

    ? Olivia Nuzzi (@Olivianuzzi) January 22, 2015

    Any reason why? Man, that's useless.

    Here, let me try...

    Just ran into Rand Paul who told me "Lindsey Graham has fucked more sheep than ISIS has."

    ? Raston Bot (@rastonbot) January 22, 2015

  18. The Late P Brooks   10 years ago

    "Lindsey Graham has fucked more sheep than ISIS has."

    Those guys from ISIS fuck goats.

    hth

    1. GregMax   10 years ago

      Really! No self-respecting sheep fan would fuck a goat.

      1. mad.casual   10 years ago

        Once you've had sheep...

        1. Fizban   10 years ago

          You never go baaaaack

  19. John Titor   10 years ago

    I refuse to take this seriously at all...I mean, come on, 'Libertarian Girl'? Next you'll be telling me Rand Paul's other social media operators are a Yeti and a unicorn.

    1. Geoff Nathan   10 years ago

      Actually she has a fairly large web footprint--I've been following her writings for a number of months and she writes well and I've yet to find much to disagree with.

      1. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

        Stalker.

    2. josh jones   10 years ago

      Really? You're surprised? The man is named after the mediocre author of a fantasy book and you are surprised when he's drawn to some girl who looks like an elf?

  20. Careless   10 years ago

    In before "The Joos!"

  21. estelleoperez   10 years ago

    $89 an hour! Seriously I don't know why more people haven't tried this, I work two shifts, 2 hours in the day and 2 in the evening?And i get surly a chek of $1260......0 whats awesome is Im working from home so I get more time with my kids.
    Here is what i did
    ?????? http://www.paygazette.com

  22. Free Society   10 years ago

    Just ran into Lindsey Graham who told me "Rand Paul has been more wrong on ISIS than Obama has."

    Coming from the guy who most often agrees with Obama in all but rhetoric, that might be unintentionally taken as a compliment.

    1. bassjoe   10 years ago

      I know. That's the crazy thing. It's not like Obama has not done anything the Graham/McCain warmonger wing wanted him to do. He's just done it with less... gusto.

  23. pld05651   10 years ago

    $89 an hour! Seriously I don't know why more people haven't tried this, I work two shifts, 2 hours in the day and 2 in the evening?And i get surly a chek of $1260......0 whats awesome is Im working from home so I get more time with my kids.
    Here is what i did
    ?????? http://www.jobs700.com

  24. Crusty Juggler   10 years ago

    Nuzzi is a pretty lady, so everything she writes is okay by me.

    1. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

      CJ,

      I posit that Marianne Copenhaver isn't hard on the eyes either. In addition, (as Geoff Nathan has pointed out above), Ms. Copenhaver is articulate, intelligent, and has views similar to most of us who post comments here.

      1. Zeb   10 years ago

        Her head looks artificial.

        1. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

          Perhaps she's an illusion and I rolled a natural 1.

    2. josh jones   10 years ago

      Nice to hear 'libertarians' admit they think with their abnormally small genitalia.

      Binks like that one are a dime a dozen.

  25. ace_m82   10 years ago

    To win the debate, libertarians must make even stronger arguments?they must show that their positions are not fringe, but rather, increasingly represent the sentiments of ordinary folks all over the country

    I don't really care if the majority decides that I'm right. The majority are often wrong.

    I'm not going to argue that the majority agree with me, but that I'm objectively right. If they still want to follow wrong because they're convinced the majority do it too, then they deserve the suffering they bring themselves.

    1. josh jones   10 years ago

      welcome to a democratic republic. if you don't like it here, you're free to leave.

  26. ReeceExaminer   10 years ago

    "Fringe," "extreme," and other such terms are philosophically invalid smears used by people who are too ignorant to form a rational rebuttal to an idea.

  27. GILMORE   10 years ago

    She said "Snowden deserves the Nobel Peace Prize - not Obama"

    is that nuts? Not in the slightest.

    Is there worse stuff out there that no one's bothered to quote? Between Welch and Nuzzi, there's maybe only 2-3 actual quotes from said 'crazy woman' actually cited

    is any of it Jezebel-level crazy? Ron-Paul-level crazy?

  28. GILMORE   10 years ago

    "Nothing makes me rage harder than the GOP trying to start another god damn war. Listen up you stupid armchair jingoes, we (libertarians, constitutional conservatives, and anti-war dems) want nothing to do with your bullshit special interest fueled wars,'"

    Is "jingoes" really a noun?

    "The chorus of a song by G. H. MacDermott (singer) and G. W. Hunt (songwriter) commonly sung in British pubs and music halls around the time of the Russo-Turkish War (1877?1878) gave birth to the term.[2][3] The lyrics had the chorus:

    We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do

    We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
    We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
    The Russians shall not have Constantinople.

    The phrase "by Jingo" was a long-established minced oath, used to avoid saying "by Jesus". Referring to the song, the specific term "jingoism" was coined as a political label by the prominent British radical George Holyoake in a letter to the Daily News on 13 March 1878.[4]."

    I score its usage as 8-out of-10 on the Pedantic-Strouth Meter

    1. bassjoe   10 years ago

      Is "jingoes" really a noun?

      Yes. It's way more often used as an adjective, though.

      1. l0b0t   10 years ago

        I am rather partial to the noun jingo-twanger; coined (IIRC) in one of the Three-fisted Tales of Bob short-stories.

  29. GILMORE   10 years ago

    The third thing in Nuzzi's list of "Crazy Talk" that the girl says was simply a "Fuck You" to Lindsey Graham & John McCain.

    yawn?

    between these three things we havent even touched low-level, daily-crazy that Harry Reid says

    What's the deal with people attacking staffers? I'd guess its a far easier way to smear a candidate without needing to go after them directly. Hence the way Nuzzi skips quickly to "past crazy people" associated with Rand, rather than dwell too long on the shallow-resource of crazy-talk that this particular girl can provide.

  30. Butler T. Reynolds   10 years ago

    We live in a world where the medieval head choppers in Saudi Arabia are our allies, crackpots like Al Sharpton are given respectful attention in the media, Jennifer Rubin is given space for her psycho-babble in the Washington Post, and nobody seems too concerned about the national debt.

    Given that, fringe is right were I belong.

  31. Ichabod   10 years ago

    Libertarians are 'fringe' because it would be too painful to classify them as centrist in their narrow left-right spectrum.

  32. The Late P Brooks   10 years ago

    Her [Copenhaver's] head looks artificial.

    I think that's just the "Barbie-ize" filter in Photoshop.

  33. XM   10 years ago

    Robby is being a bit disingenuous here.

    She did not merely criticize Israeli policy. Someone posted "I stand with Israel" and her response was something like "Then you go fight over there." and accused critics of being slaves to Israel, which is pretty much out of Ron Paul's isolationist playbook.

    No one proposed going to war over Russia's involvement in shooting down a civilian airplane and killing innocent. Mccain proposed a firm response if Russia was found to be involved. The Ron Paul kooks are Don Quixote, they see phantom war cries in the most random situations.

    Every nation will try to reacquire individuals who leaked their secret sins. Because they have to make sure they don't also leak other info that can compromise the nation's safety. Snowden is such a bothersome figure to Obama that he'll try to strike a deal in exchange for Snowden giving up everything he stole. Paulites fear that Obama will secretly poison him (lol), but they don't fear that outcome in.... Russia.

    Would you actively praise Hitler if he protected an American commie who fought for civil rights? It doesn't make much sense to me.

    Americans have never agreed with Ron Paul's brand of libertarianism. A slim majority continues to support air strikes and military aid to stop ISIS. I wouldn't be surprised if the LG was found to have uttered some anti-semitic, racist remarks in her past. I don't know why Rand thinks this woman should run his social media.

    1. CE   10 years ago

      Now you're just speculating.

    2. josh jones   10 years ago

      why would Hitler protect a commie? Fascists are right-wingers, not left-wingers. When Mussolini took power he declared "We have ended the persecution of capital."

      This is why after I knock John Galt wannabe's out, I draw Nolan Charts on their foreheads.

      1. l0b0t   10 years ago

        Meh... both fascism and national socialism are the inevitable end result of demotism. Demotism itself is the problem, not the particular flavor.

        1. josh jones   10 years ago

          National Socialism IS Fascim, 'tardling.

          Let me know when you want to wake up to the smell of Sharpie.

          1. l0b0t   10 years ago

            Well, no. No they are not the same thing. To be honest, I did mean to type socialism but the point stands regardless. Demotism itself is the root of the problem. Universal suffrage was a poorly thought out idea and should be abolished; Carlyle and Filmer have been proven right a thousandfold.

            1. josh jones   10 years ago

              LOL. Nice to hear you admit that its the democratic process you hate.

              Most fascists do.

              And yes, they are the same thing.
              Attempt to revise history all you like, but don't be surprised when I slap your BS down and spit on it again.

              1. l0b0t   10 years ago

                Fascism is product of demotism and I'll have no truck with it. If you are so desperate to label your philosophical opponents then formalist, royalist, reactionary all do quite nicely as ideological shorthand. And you would be a run of the mill Whig/Progressive, in thrall to a militant non-theistic Christianity you don't really understand.

                1. josh jones   10 years ago

                  LMFAO. I'm an Universalist Asatraur, and a social democrat, but thanks for the attempt. and the laugh.

                  On a Nolan Chart I graph about halfway between FDR and Ghandi, bout directly opposed to a spot between Newt Gingrich and the Ayatollah Khomeni. I'm perfectly comfortable here, too.

                  And I find Randians and people who believe in X-files UFOs to be hilarious.

                  1. l0b0t   10 years ago

                    "LMFAO. I'm an Universalist Asatraur, and a social democrat, "

                    Of course you are. That is exactly what I said above; you are a Whig/Progressive in thrall to a non-theistic Christianity. Specifically, by self-labeling as a Universalist and social democrat, you out yourself as an heir to the heresies of Quakerism and ultra-Calvinism (of which, your flirtations with paganism to which you have no cultural connection are merely a pathology). You are either being deliberately obtuse or you actually do not understand and appreciate your own ideology. Pathetic either way. That's fine, we'll keep a gibbet open for you.

      2. Suicidy   10 years ago

        You're an idiot that defeats no one and wins nothing. You're the punchline to a bad joke.

    3. Whahappan?   10 years ago

      My my, aren't you disingenuous XM. To my knowledge nobody defending Snowden does so by praising Putin. I dare you to show a supporter of Snowden lauding Putin. Also you're dishonest conflating of non-interventionism with isolationism isn't fooling anybody. You're pathetic and your arguments are weak.

  34. David_B   10 years ago

    Our only mission in the middle east is to defend our allies, everything else is meddling and overeach.

    That is to say, that our only mission is to help defend Israel from Islamic extremism.

    And of course it is unacceptable for Iran to obtain nuclear capability, which can be achieved more or less, through sanctions. If nucelar capability is achievable in Iran, than it is incumbent upon us as allies (the West) to protect Israel, which may or may not result in a supportive capacity in a millitary campaign with Israel.

    1. CE   10 years ago

      Saudi Arabia is also our ally. To defend them from Islamic extremism, we would have to topple their government. Is that okay with you?

      1. David_B   10 years ago

        Saudi Arabia is hardly an allie, except in the capacity that they provide us with oil.

        If Saudi Arabia wants to remain Islamic, then that is entirely up to them, none of my buisness.

        Likewise, if Israel decided they wanted to embrace Islam, then that's their choice. But while Israel is a Western democracy and an allie in the middle east, surrounded by Islamic states, hell bent on Israels destruction, it is up to us to help protect them.

        Whatever else occurs in the middle east is none of my buisness. If the Islamic world wants to destroy itself, then that's up to them.

        1. josh jones   10 years ago

          Tell it to the last POTUS from Rand Paul's party. I have several AP photos of that fake cowboy holding hands and kissing the cheeks of the monarch of the Kingdom of Saud.

    2. MarkinLA   10 years ago

      which can be achieved more or less, through sanctions.

      This qualifies you as an idiot.

      The US built the first nuclear weapon without computers 70 years ago. There is nothing but a nuclear attack or boots on the ground that can stop Iran from building a bomb if they so desire.

      Sanctions will be less and less useful as the rest of the world gets sick of us and decides to form their own trading relationships. It is only because the dollar is the world's reserve currency that sanctions can be enforced. However, the Russians and Chinese are already working on breaking the dollar's hold and more nations are bound to join as we continue to stick our nose into everything.

      We also don't have any obligation to Israel.

  35. CE   10 years ago

    So no one who works for any politician can have any political views that differ slightly from those the politician espouses publicly? Because I'm pretty sure that Bill Clinton and George Bush and Barack Obama hired staffers who were true believers in liberal/conservative dogma to far greater extremes than those the past 3 presidents backed in public.

  36. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

    A close reading of Copenhaver's social-media history now has some asking whether or not Paul's decision to saddle her with such responsibility speaks well of his judgment.

    Who are the "some"?

    Those that get riled up by Olivia Nuzzi's article, that's who!

  37. josh jones   10 years ago

    I for one am pretty sure its a great indicator of his judgement, and that his judgement is sorely lacking. Then again, I already knew that based on the silly Isolationist policies he espouses.

    1. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

      That statement is a great indicator of your judgement, since you don't understand the difference between an isolationist and a non-interventionist.

      1. josh jones   10 years ago

        LOL. Where'd you get your degree in Doublespeak, professor puddin'?

        1. Puddin' Stick   10 years ago

          From the Josh Jones School of Doublespeak. 😀

          1. josh jones   10 years ago

            I'd have failed you, puddin pop.
            Try harder.

  38. steve baker   10 years ago

    I got to the Lindsey Graham quote in the header and quit reading.

  39. JeremyR   10 years ago

    You should really stop using "neoconservative" to describe a website.

    It specifically means a group of people who used to be liberals/democrats but switched to the Republicans because of foreign policy.

    Looking at Free Beacon's website, it seems plain old conservative, not neo.

  40. Timon 19   10 years ago

    So...is all this mess Mary on the verge of a manic phase, or is this some random Salontard?

  41. REMant   10 years ago

    AS C-in-C, the president could send Graham into combat, and I'd hope he does.

  42. MarkinLA   10 years ago

    The reality is that Americans in general have become so profoundly stupid that these type of guilt by association attacks work. Hopefully, the internet will have some success in getting people to think about the real issues like it is helping people break down political correctness but I doubt it.

  43. sonniesiegel   10 years ago

    $89 an hour! Seriously I don't know why more people haven't tried this, I work two shifts, 2 hours in the day and 2 in the evening?And i get surly a chek of $1260......0 whats awesome is Im working from home so I get more time with my kids.
    Here is what i did
    ?????? http://www.paygazette.com

  44. ckwallis   10 years ago

    For years, Congress, as a group, has consistently had approval ratings barely out of single digits. While I realize there are many reasons for this, it does make me wonder just who's calling who fringe?

    Everyone I know, regardless of their political leanings or total lack of them, thinks the political class occupying Washington D.C., especially Congress, is completely out of touch with Main Street America. When was the last time McCain, Graham, or any of the 'mainstream' Old Guard of either party talked to people at acar wash, or in a doctor's waiting room, at a laundromat, at the grocery store? (Yesterday at the grocery store a young mom commented that it was a good thing gas prices had gone down because milk was now up to $6 a gallon. Think that would even register with R or D elite? The typical R response would be 'you need to work harder/get a better job to pay for it', while the typical D response would be, 'you need to get food stamps'--but neither would question the monetary policy behind inflation.)

    No one I know feels represented by a bunch of rich, privileged, self-absorbed people always looking for the next angle to hustle bucks and votes. If anything, I'd say most people feel bullied, exploited, voiceless, and insignificant. McCain and Graham might be 'mainstream' Republicans, but just like Old Guard, establishment Democrats, I think it's likely they are the true fringe element of the American people.

    1. DenverJay   10 years ago

      Even worse: members of BOTH parties have called for an increase in the gas tax. Because, you know, we can't have these uneducated peons deciding for themselves how to spend the savings that result from a decrease in the price of petroleum. I mean, heaven forbid, these savages may actually use the savings they get from lower gas prices to buy extra food, pay off their utility bills, or even worse, SAVE some money!
      NO! This is unacceptable! We, the Government, must direct that money towards OUR goals. These peons just don't understand!

  45. josh jones   10 years ago

    Actually we're doing quite well. If you don't like it here, you're free to gtfo and go galt. Here's the thing: You won't. You never do. Sure you talk a fat game about leaving all the "takers" and running away to start a Randian Utopia.

    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. "

  46. josh jones   10 years ago

    Awwwwww look, I have a fangirl already.

  47. josh jones   10 years ago

    "Prescription Drug Benefit?-
    BobDolecare!"
    I'm with you there. Hopefully POTUS HRC will have us to a single payer system by the tie she leaves office in 2025

    "Bailouts of Wall Street?
    MORE bailouts and buying up automakers!"

    Except POTUS Barry O's worked, and paid a return.

    "No child left behind?
    FREE COMMUNITY COLLEGE!"
    We already do that here in Tennessee. I could care less if your mutant progeney get an education, but that's just me.

    "Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
    Those... plus Yemen, Pakistan, Libya and coming soon - Syria! (And Africa most likely.)

    POTUS Barry O ended the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, you cozen bink. Don't let a little history get in your way.
    How many combat deaths did we suffer in Libya or Syria, and WTF are you jabbering about Yemen and the whole continent of Africa for?

    "National Debt? $4.9 Trillion under Bush.
    Obozo? By the time he's done, more than $8 trillion"

    If you ever get out to economics 101 you'll learn the difference between "secured debt" and "unsecured debt".

    YOU Can belittle him till your racist heart is content, Bambibink. Don't change the fact that there is a snowball's chance in Jerry Falwell's cirle of hell that one will get elected again before 2028, and who knows what the GOP will look like then?

  48. josh jones   10 years ago

    DO you think anyone believes that bull?

    At least around here the people that hate him have the guts to say why. I ain't sure why you're so scared. I can't knock all your teeth out over the interwebs like I do theirs for speaking your tripe in person.

  49. Kure'i   10 years ago

    Yeah. And Iran sponsored attacks in Argentina because of that country's aggressive imperialism, too. Right?

    "Don't bomb the Germans! That'll just make more Nazis! Don't bomb the Japanese, that'll just create more kamikazes!"

    We need a policy that makes these people scared to piss US off, not one that makes us look like the elephant hiding from a mouse.

  50. Suicidy   10 years ago

    We have a winner. Make them very, very afraid to cross us.

  51. Suicidy   10 years ago

    Open borders is as hot idea. Which is why obama loves it so much. Evil fucking traitor turd that he is.

  52. Sunshine   10 years ago

    Absolutely. To me, a major key to being Libertarian is independent thought, not toeing party line.

  53. Suicidy   10 years ago

    Your grasp of recent history is tenuous at best. A venom filled traitor such as yourself hurts my country with every breath. So breathe no more.

    I suggest suicide. And make it snappy.

  54. Suicidy   10 years ago

    A little statist tyre like you is really threatened by concepts of freedom and persona liberty, aren't you?

    Stalin would be proud of a shitstwin like you.

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